“There’s so many versions of consent; having an understanding of what that word means, what that principle looks like in any relationship, is what I think is missing from sex ed.”

That’s one heck of a calling and pretty incredible. Can you talk about your journey to becoming a sex educator, why that specifically became a calling for you, and when that happened in your life?

 It happened kind of accidentally, but also, it was definitely going to happen. I started working with Dorian Solot and Marshall Miller right out of college. I was working in theater, and on playbill.com, where a lot of theater artists find jobs, they posted that they were looking for a speaker, because they do a lot of college programming. They were probably looking for a man, but the listing called for a “male presenter.” At the time, I was like, I can present male, sure, why not? And so I was like, let me just try this. I didn't necessarily have the sex ed background that they were looking for, but I was colleagues with another one of their speakers and she was like ‘you need to hire Maybe.’ They basically brought me on to look over all of their programming and do what my real expertise is, which is gender inclusion, and to make sure that they weren't leaving people out of the conversation. Through that relationship, I've gotten to the point that I am now where I'm doing most of the LGBTQ+ programming that they offer, usually co-facilitating with another person. And they brought me on to write the second edition of this book.

The book you're referring to, I have my copy right here: I Love Orgasms, has been very, very well loved by me, as you can see with my little post-it-notes. One page I marked is about body tours. Can you describe what it is and some of the ways it can be used?

So a body tour is really a pretty simple concept of basically taking your partner on a tour of your body. And it can be fun and weird and quirky, but it can also be sexy, and smooth. I don't know how to do it that way, but I'm sure it can.

The first time I had sex with another trans person, we were starting to get intimate with each other and he took my hand, put it down his pants and whispered in my ear, ‘I call that my dick, what do you call yours?’ I was thrown off by that, but it was one of the hottest things that had ever happened. You can do a tour and have your partner do it for themselves, too, you can do it to yourself, if you're navigating masturbation in a new way, or for the first time, and learn that, like, ‘Oh, I really like being touched here.’ You can literally take your partner's hands on your body. If that’s the discussion, then they have to want to be doing that with you. It can be a conversation of, “I like when you touch me here, but I don't like if you touch there,” or “I do like if you touch it there, but you have to touch here, here, and here in order to get there.” You can get that understanding of each other, and you don't have to give everything away. Because sometimes there's another place you like to be touched but you want to wait for them to find it.

Do you think it also helps when it comes to trying to name specific parts of your body because I know that can be a struggle for a lot of different people that feel like they want to have a name or almost like an identity for different parts of their body, but they struggle with trying to kind of name it or put something to it?

100%. That's where body tours start as a gender expansive approach and also it's a trauma informed approach. Beyond gender, there's just a lot of people who have feelings about what certain parts of their body are called. There's plenty of cis women who don't like the term “pussy,” for example, so you could give a body tour and tell your partner a different name for what you want them to be calling that. And that isn't a gendered thing. Everybody has some things they would rather hear. It's a way for folks to be able to have that conversation in a way that can be like low stakes, and you can make it fun and have a silly moment, or you can use it as foreplay. Different things work for different folks. Right? 

I think a lot of people struggle with really talking about exactly what they want as it's happening. Body tours might help ground you a little bit, instead of just getting hot and heavy. It’s a really cool and dynamic concept to use in so many different ways.

You also have the ability to explain why or not, right? From my own personal experience as a trauma survivor, there have been parts of my body that for a while: you could not touch me there. But I wouldn't want to explain every time I was with a new partner, that's a lot to bring into a bedroom. Being able to just be like, ‘hey, if you touch me between here and here, it's not gonna go well for us. So just like, avoid that area.’ And then, give suggestions of where you can go instead.

Everyone should be doing body tours! Body tours for all! So thinking about sex education overall, are there any key elements that are missing from sex education, specifically in the United States?

Consent.

I just mentioned that I'm a trauma survivor. And there is a section in the book where I'm talking about the fact that I didn't know what consent looked like for the first five or six years that I was having sex. Sex was just the thing that happened to me. 

And if you look at rom-coms of that time, the characters don't talk about sex it's just supposed to happen. Even with a first kiss, or holding hands at a movie, there's actually pressure to not talk about things and to not think about consent. The fact that the person is near you means they want all of the same things as you and you're supposed to telepathically have that understanding, which is not how people work.

I've crossed lines when I was a teenager and a young adult, because I did not know the lines, you know. And that happens so often. And today, as an adult, on apps, I find it fun to try to explain consent to grown men, because that’s who I am as a person. But I'll literally be like, taking like an unsolicited schlong, if you will. I will be like, “you don't care about consent”. And they're like, “I didn't rape you”.

That's not all consent is. People don’t have an understanding of the concept of consent, in and outside of sex, or intimacy. There's forms you have to fill out for consent in medical settings. There’s so many versions of consent; having an understanding of what that word means, what that principle looks like in any relationship is what I think is missing from sex ed which is crucial to how we talk about any relationship.

After kindergarten, we're kind of numb I think, we forget that you need someone's permission in order to touch them. If we can just drill consent into sexual education in this country, we would probably be way, way better off. 

Because you mentioned kindergarteners, that's a topic that comes up often because we can start there. Teaching kids to keep your hands to yourself, but we also force young kids to hug their relatives and go give grandma a kiss. Instead we could ask, “do you want that happening to your body? You're welcome to say no.” 

One of my favorite things that I see show up on social media regularly is videos of the beginning of a day in elementary school where the teacher has a sign outside the door, and the kids can choose if they want a hug or a fist bump or a high five, or whatever it is. And that's consent. That's teaching consent.

I've seen a lot of things about parents taking on different approaches where the kid says, ‘no, I don't want to hug grandma’. They're not hugging grandma that day. And that is okay. I think that gives kids agency. 

Shifting gears a bit, are there any resources you could share for someone who may be exploring sex and their sexuality for the first time?

I Love Orgasms is built for people to figure out what's going on, whether you've had an orgasm before or not. If you want to have more exciting orgasms, or more orgasms period, it is a resource. On our website, there are more resources that go in depth. As you read the book, you'll see that there are little blurbs directing you to websites to learn more, and we have a list of those resources. 

I also think when you’re exploring sex and sexuality for the first time, a great resource is your body and yourself. Do that body tour with yourself. Focus on yourself, don't look at porn and read things that are going to tell you what your body should like, or should do. Find out what your body likes, and what your body can do. Because our bodies are weird. Different things are gonna feel different in different ways. Things are gonna feel different on your own then with a partner, but starting on your own is a great way to start and to see what you like and how you like certain things. 

I think there's also just a lot of people who feel a lot of shame when they try to start exploring on their own. But you kind of have to realize, no one's putting you under a microscope here, it's just you and your own head. 

We also talk a lot about fantasy in the book. And the idea that there are things that I find alluring sexually in a fantasy, that I find unethical in my waking life. You can potentially find ways to navigate those dynamics in a consensual and safe way in your actual life. But also some things are okay staying a fantasy. 

That's the beauty of fantasy in that it's allowed to just be something you have in your own head to make you feel however you want to feel in that moment. 

When it comes to talking to partners, I know that every new partner is a brand new journey, but do you have recommendations about how to talk to your partner about sex without having to include gendered language, ways someone can start to talk about sex and identity to help affirm someone who may be non-binary?

Body tours are the great launchpad for that. Making sure language is aligning for folks and making sure you're using the right words for parts of the body and all of those things. 

I remember a person who, when I was more gender neutral in my identity, instead of using, “Yes, sir,” or “Yes, ma'am,” with me, opted to say, “Yes, queer.” And it took me out of the moment. Because I was like, that's utterly ridiculous. But we need to talk about it. 

Check in like, what language is going to be affirming for you? And for some people, what feels right in the moment doesn't necessarily have to be what's right in every moment. Every non-binary person is going to be different. You don't need to use exclusively gender neutral language, with every non-binary person, because different folks have different associations. So really, the thing that I suggest to folks is, to listen, and reflect the language they're using for themselves back. And if you're together, you don't really have to name a lot of parts that you're talking about, so much as asking, “do you like it here?” or “can I touch you there?” And that might feel a little bumpy at first. But as a non-binary person, I can tell you getting those questions is a lot sexier than hearing language you don't want to hear.

Is there anything else that you're working on that you want to let the Womanly magazine audience know?

I'm booking for the fall semester right now for speaking gigs, and you can go to sexualityeducation.com to see all of the different types of programming that we offer as well. You can definitely follow me on social media. I’m @believeinmaybe anywhere you go. You can find me on my website at maybeburke.com, or Iloveorgasmsbook.com to find the book, which we also have a discount code for your audience. If you use the code Womanly20 valid at our website.

I highly recommend this book,  I Love Orgasms, it was a delightful read, and I see myself flipping through it all the time. It's also a great conversation starter for when people come over and they see it on your bookshelf. 

We always end Womanly interviews with a quick question about self care practices. What are your favorites, and is there anything you would recommend to the audience in terms of self care?

That is my weakest link, I think, is taking care of myself. I'm not very good at doing it. But, for me, the act of putting on makeup has become a meditative process. Just like putting on or taking off, and taking care of my face, my appearance has been a version of self care for me that has been really beautiful. And just being able to take time to fully relax, you know, and not like, lay on the couch and procrastinate from doing things but actually be like, ‘No, I don't have to do things. I have to relax and I deserve to be relaxing. That's the best.